It was mentioned in an earlier comment that there are those that earn $20k/yr and struggle to eat. I agree. However, there are those throughout the world who could live like kings and queens with $20k/yr.

B.O., as he states, is here to change the world, not just the United States. I believe that he has a more ambitious socioeconomic experiment in mind. Since $250k is a made-up number, why can’t it be lowered to $100K? …or $50k? …or even $20k? When more money is being collected, then more money can be redistributed to more people around the world. After all, we are the ‘wealthy’ nation compared to the rest…it is only fair that we share, right? It is the same premise.

We are about to travel on a very dangerous road that will be paved with the misery and defeated spirit of a once great nation. Our destination? Only our soon-to-be elected Pied Piper knows…

The 90/10 rule about WMDs can also be applied to many things deemed as an act of dishonesty and not deemed an actual lie. I’ve been guilty of that at times during my lifetime. To be honest, I’ve always thought that it the same as telling a lie, even partially. Take for example something from many years ago, when I first started in IT, my boss asked me if I knew how to install a NetWare server. I told him yes, when in fact, I’d never installed an actual server, only watched someone else install it. For me, my job depended on it. Did I lie to him? I think so, but I guess I could also say that I was dishonest with him. I did learn on the job, but at the expense of company time I was paid to learn something they thought I already knew.

I really am not trying to argue, but trying to make a point. It seems that since the person never uttered the words “I lied” then it can be called something else, like being dishonest… almost like it’s more acceptable than a lie. For me personally, I see both words describing the situation as “I wasn’t telling the truth”

As for the tax details, the biggest and most confusing thing I’ve had to deal with was family related when my mom passed away. Trying to find forms and other details to file my mom’s final tax return was way more complicated that I wanted to deal with.

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Certainly the current tax plan is *way* too complicated, no need to refute that! Oh, and I’m not a “tax guy”, just more familiar with some areas of our tax code than average (such as the wonky bit about what happens when you sell discounted employee stock for a profit that is less than the discount you received, within two years of acquiring it).

Also, regarding Bush lying about the war — when I researched this several years ago, I couldn’t find an actual lie. I have a vague memory of some sort of reference to there being a 90% chance they would find WMDs — but that wasn’t even necessarily wrong, as that would still allow for a 10% chance that they wouldn’t find them. (Wayne will probably reply about how they *did* find WMDs, which is a whole separate issue.) It seems the most oft-cited “lie” is refuted, at least for the most part, by factcheck.org at http://www.factcheck.org/bushs_16_words_on_iraq_uranium.html

Note that taking advantage of public sentiment and misunderstanding could be argued to be an act of dishonesty, but it isn’t a lie. Or is that too fine a point?

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re: drug dealers paying taxes… So much for my coke dealer having any more weekly specials…

At least now we have flat tax to add to our shared love of Steely Dan.

Ren… http://www.fairtax.net/8.htm.
With all of you smart and educated tax people out here (you are a tax guy, aren’t you?), I’m either feeling really stupid or a bit more educated. I do know that the current tax plan is very complicated…. or can that be refuted with a link that I need to read?

martymankins´s last blog post..Scooter Sunday #27

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That said, my post was about the media bias. However, your comment was about the emotional aspect of wealth redistribution or progressive taxation. Much like the media redirected folks’ attention as an attack on Joe the Plumber about his licensing status, whether or not “Joe” was his name, or if he owed back taxes, you are concentrating on whether or not it’s fair that the rich pay higher taxes.

I agree with the very poor paying lower (or even no) taxes. This is why I’m for the Fair Tax. I agree with helping the disabled. I agree with assisting those who cannot assist themselves. I agree that in the past, minorities and women have not been given the same opportunities as the white man.

I do not agree, however, that “you’re lucky to eat, no matter how hard you work toward it” if you make less than $20K. America is about freedom and choice. There’s always a way to eat. There are always difference choices to make. There is always an opportunity. One can choose to live somewhere else less expensive, work somewhere else, learn a new skill, get another job, and have less expensive habits. One can choose to smoke cigarettes, eat expensive food, max out credit cards, get a cell phone, buy a car, and buy a house too expensive for them with a ballooning APR. One can choose to disagree with it’s government and not be shot for it. America is great for that one. One can even choose to be homeless!

Choices come with consequences. And what I see is the government taking away consequences for the choices people make and redirecting those consequences to others. I do not believe people are guaranteed life, liberty and happiness… but I do believe they are guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I love giving. I believe in giving. And the government takes away my ability to give by withholding more money from my paycheck to give in ways I vehemently disagree with. They have stolen my ability to give as much as I want.

And with respect to not seeing eye to eye on “the gov’t is stealing the hard earned money of a few to give to the many”, Ren pointed out that 3% of the earners pay 49% of the entire US tax revenue. I think that’s fair enough already.

The answer is to reduce government spending while increasing assistance to those who need it… so they may help themselves as soon as possible. If someone gets something from the government, they need to give back. If they can work, they need to work. If they have kids, then those kids MUST be in school. If the kids aren’t in school, then the family doesn’t get welfare. Even if all they did was wash a taxpayer’s car, that’d help the taxpayer out.

I still feel like I’m coming off as some snobbish elitist fatcat. I hope I’m not.

Sybil Law, I thought the Palin pick was GREAT. It’s the pick of McCain that I disagreed with – he’s way too spendy for me. I thought we’d be better off with a more conservative pick and then McCain for VP, but Palin rounds out McCain nicely. Besides, she has more executive experience than the other 3 combined! If you recall, McCain’s presidential bid was all but dead until Democrats crossed the aisle in the primaries and pushed him back up (much like, but less than, the Texan Republicans who crossed the line to nominate Hillary in an attempt to oust Obama).

Janna,
and I will defend with my life your right to agree with Marilyn.

Dave2, You, my friend, need a new plumber. Have you accepted Obama
into your life?

Faiqa, You make an excellent point about the bad daily habits combined with complaining about economy. And you make an even excellenter point about people thinking one man, office, or even 545 people “make or break” America.

Re: middle name… You think you have it bad. My middle name is Wayne. Do you know how many death row inmates and news stories there are about a killer with a middle name Wayne?

Andy Bailey, thanx for stopping by! Would you like to buy a tin foil hat?

martymankins, do you really think Bush lied about a war? to me, that’s another example of media bias. Did you know about his push to increase spending on S-CHIP?

Regarding the Obama < $200K no tax increase promise, I still don't believe it. With the corporate, business, capital gains, FICA and other taxes going up, all businesses will be paying more money in taxes. This will likely mean lower benefits, lower pay, and fewer workers. Fewer workers means less tax revenue to the government. Fewer in the workforce means more depending on the government (since evidently people are incapable of taking care of themselves anymore) Increasing taxes ALWAYS reduces tax revenue. Decreases taxes ALWAYS increases tax revenue.

Ren, good comment with good info. I wanted to graph out those numbers but was spending too much time on it so gave up.

Sheila, Welcome to the blog of whall! I had not heard of this Barney of which you speak – maybe he was plastered all over CNN, MSN, ABC, etc and I missed it. I did, however, only hear of Barney Frank’s “live-in relationship with Fannie May executive Herb Moses while Frank was on the House Banking Committee.”

Talk about bias. I only heard about this on Newsmax and Fox News. Can anyone tell me this isn’t blatant biased news media coverage?

Moses was Fannie Mae’s assistant director for product initiatives from 1991 to 1998.

He was also openly gay Frank’s live-in boyfriend during that time, while the Massachusetts lawmaker was on the committee that had jurisdiction over government-sponsored Fannie Mae, Fox News’ Bill Sammon reported.

Sandi, very good point – someone could do a news story on something incredibly inane and off-topic, but the bias put into the headline changes someone’s mind. Ridiculous.

martymankins #2, seems we agree on one thing – everyone paying the same percentage. And I’ll go one further – everyone should include illegal immigrants, drug dealers, and criminals who evade taxes.

Ren #2, oh great. Now I gotta go research ANOTHER tax idea. How about I just wait until you’ve analyzed it and you tell me what’s good/bad about it so I can take it easy?

For a while now, I’ve been in favor of the Fair Tax (national sales tax), which includes a poverty-level credit for everyone. More recently, though, Warren Buffet has gotten me reconsidering my position that saving and investment should be tax advantaged (which they are now, and greatly more so under the Fair Tax). Now I’m no longer clear on how I think the tax system should be structured. The only think I am clear on is that the government spends way too much money. I think balanced budget legislation is way more important than arguing about who should get tax cuts and who should get tax hikes, but I’m not holding my breath….

Oh, there is one other aspect of this issue I’m still pretty clear on — corporations don’t pay taxes, only people pay taxes. So raising corporate taxes, or creating windfall profit taxes against corporations, just hides the additional taxes that are still paid by the people through higher prices. Either that, or the corporations find ways to avoid the taxes in the first place, which often includes relocating to a state (or country) with more favorable tax treatment.

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martymankins´s last blog post..Scooter Sunday #27

What’s the current reality of fair for today? People being able to have enough money to both pay their bills and have their own surplus to support businesses of all types.

martymankins´s last blog post..Scooter Sunday #27

The rotten ones are those that we allow to sway us without any first-hand input. The ones based upon someone else’s unsupported, uninvestigated opinion. Bias.

I personally find partisan biases to be ridiculous and amusing at the same time.

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